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[绝对原创] 小贩回信了,请MOVEMENT老师和各位老师看看。

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发表于 2010-9-7 12:04 | 显示全部楼层
我也來扮扮小販專家 (其實這些小販是誰啊, pm我可以嗎?),不同的是我把資料來源一併提供......要找其實易如反掌的, 小販專家們為何只提供少許資料給樓主呢? 說成罕有, 珍品, 好雕刻呢? 我不敢下定論, 大家自己想...

正如Loui版大所說, 三色表早就有很多了, Waltham, Elgin, 等知名的美國表都有出過, 可以說是當時一種潮流.....




以下是Roy殼公司的資料, 由NACWW网轉載, http://mb.nawcc.org/showwiki.php?title=Roy+Watch+Case+Co&&highlight=roy+case+company只用作智識交流.
大概說Roy1885年在布克林開始, 1889年後只做14K及18K殼, 公認是高質素的, 通常是精雕, 有凸金裝飾圖案或法瑯裝飾, 也有寶石裝入殼上, 也有做光殼的.1929年主人心藏病發, 玩完!

Roy早期? - 1891-? hallmark標記用"手"的, 表示他們用人手雕刻的....










上圖可看到Roy的精美浮雕風格...
Roy後來有在殼上做微相片轉印的:



一九二0年Roy改標記, 只用"ROY".....



所以肯定 LZ的是1920-1929的!機心號24849106, 是1925年的
看看hallmark: (謝謝有心人的圖)


再看LZ的, 嘩....點解質素相差那麼多啊!



LZ的很粗糙啊 (不要再問如何粗糙, 盲的都見到!)
還有壓印不平均, 還要壓了二次, 莫非第一次不夠力 ???,有名的殼廠出這樣質素的產品???!!!

樓主有否無聊地修改過圖來玩玩我們?

LZ這也是roy殼嗎? keystone? 大家看過我對Engraving的膚淺見解後, 現在應該看得出這和我一直談論LZ的另一殼的雕刻手法是一模一樣的........


現我也相信老表兄, 可能東歐做的, 他見識比小弟多很多

以上只是小弟武斷地單靠LZ的幾張相所得出的粗淺觀察, 如有錯漏, 請勿見怪及斧正!
多多包函了!


Roy Watch Case Co.:  A Brief HistoryAccording to the book "History of the American Watch Case," Warren H. Niebling, Whitmore Publishing, Philadelphia, PA, 1971, page 49 (available on loan by mail to members from the NAWCC Lending Library), the Roy Watch Case Co. started in Brooklyn, NY in 1885, a fact confirmed by an article in the [url=http://eagle.brooklynpubliclibrary.org/Repository/getFiles.asp?Style=OliveXLibowLevelEntityToSaveGifMSIE_BEAGLE&Type=text/html&Locale=english-skin-custom&ath=BEG/1885/06/19&ChunkNum=-1&ID=Ar00606]Brooklyn Eagle[/url] (uncovered by Robert Sweet).  The company's name was based upon that of one of its incorporators - and until 1889, a stockholder - Augustin X. Roy.  It was a successful operation, recognized as making quality cases.  Roy only made 14K and 18K gold cases, which were usually heavily engraved, often having raised gold ornamentation and enameled decoration.  Embedded jewels were also set into cases.  However, Roy also had plain cases in their line.    Robert Sweet found the following obituary in the May 13, 1952 edition of the New York Times: "Albert L. Stearns, president and treasurer of the Roy Watch Case Company from 1904 until the firm was dissolved in 1929, died yesterday of a heart attack."  Thus it is seen that the company lasted just about up to the depression.



[hide] - [top]The Hand Trade MarkBy the early 1890s, Roy had started using a hand as a trade mark, symbolizing the hand-engraving of the cases.  This trade mark continued to be used at the turn of the century, when ads show its appearance as a  tag for the case.  The hand trade mark remained in use at least as late as 1914, as seen in an ad posted on the Elgin Watch Collectors Site.  However, the name [url=http://mb.nawcc.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=64844&d=1277846558Roy" in an arch[/url] is more frequently seen stamped in the cases.



[hide] - [top]Photo MiniaturesRoy was also well-known for the use of a photo-reproduction process to customize cases by reproducing photographs on the cap (cuvette).  That same Elgin Watch Collectors website, mentioned earlier, has an early ad (1891) showing Roy's offering of reproducing photo miniatures on their cases.  This service was apparently run at Roy by, or contracted out to, Léon Favre, who was featured in Roy's 1893 Chicago World's Fair exhibit, and who, following the fair in the Fall of 1893, ended the relationship.  Nevertheless, Roy continued to offer the photo-on-case service which continued to be promoted in ads.



[hide] - [top]The Ægis CaseBy 1908, Roy was promoting a new case design, the patented Ægis case.  In this design, the movement is held in a "movement cup" which is then friction fit into a one-piece center ring and bezel.  The design was claimed to be dust-tight.



[hide] - [top]Roy vs. Camm-Roy
The Camm-Roy Watch Case Co. was a separate company entirely from the Roy Watch Case Co.  Its name was originally the Roy Manufacturing Co.  This firm was started by a group of investors including Frank L. Camm and Augustin X. Roy, the person who was one of the founders of the Roy Watch Case Co. and for whom it was named.  Upon the name change to Camm-Roy Watch Case Co. on May 18, 1899, the Roy Watch Case Co. brought suit and sought an injunction to prevent Camm-Roy from using that name, claiming that it led customers to believe that the Roy Watch Case Co. was associated with Camm, which it wasn't.  Additionally, the Roy Watch Case Co. took out ads in the trade press pointing out that there was no association of two and that legal proceedings had been started; and that its only sales representative was A.L. Stearns.  This was to ensure that its customers didn't inadvertently give their orders to Camm-Roy.  However, it was nowhere alleged that Camm-Roy salesmen either misrepresented themselves as the Roy salesman, or that the two companies were one.  The injunction was granted, favoring the Roy Watch Case Co. in late June 1899, whereupon Camm-Roy changed its name again, this time to the Camm Watch Case Co.  Nevertheless, testimony was still being given on the subject in November of that year.  Additional information is available at Loislaw.com.

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参与人数 2金币 +200 收起 理由
什捷缅科 + 100 欢迎
石上清泉 + 100

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发表于 2010-9-7 12:45 | 显示全部楼层
到底是不是高人, 外行如我根本看不出来, 这些讨论太专业了.
但是斗胆比较了一下两组照片, 以一个普通表迷的审美眼光来看, 做工差异还是很大的说...
很久很久以前, 生活节奏慢, 信息和交通都不发达, 必须要你静下心来慢工出细活, 否则忙了半年, 又走了很多路, 可能卖不出去! 成本太高了!要饿死人的!
现在的工艺比以前先进多了, 但是匠人心浮气躁, 讲究快进快出, 现金流, 捞一票走人!
没那么多专业知识的人, 看看细节, 体会一下其中的韵味, 也许就能看出个七七八八......
发表于 2010-9-7 12:52 | 显示全部楼层
尽管我是外行,可还是有看了一遍,喜欢这个贴
发表于 2010-9-7 13:11 | 显示全部楼层
其实,尽管有些火药味,但是我不得不说,这个帖子渐入佳境了!
怨不得我们在这七嘴八舌,学习耳!
请33兄和2009兄莫怪~~呵呵~~
 楼主| 发表于 2010-9-7 13:47 | 显示全部楼层
这件事情到这里我实在都懒得和movement2009纠缠了,说出几点自己的看法:

1、movement2009完全是一个怀表盲,连基础实金印记不会看,为什么连实金印记都不会看的表盲会对3色金有研究??呵呵,更加别说其他知识了。

2、顺口开河说一只怀表是现代加工的粗略品,然后在网络找伪资料来污蔑人,movement2009在18楼的网络图片,部分磨损严重,不要说雕工,连原来的样子都辨认不出来了,但是到他的口居然是精品。

3、我在隔壁"ming表论坛"也发了这个贴,12版主和其他人直指movement2009的无知,movement2009为什么不敢做出反驳呢?movement2009都是这个论坛常客。

4、前段时间在"ming表论坛",这个movement2009也冒充制表专家,多次出口诬蔑“自鸣表”老师,最后被人扫地出门,阿里,老表,如影随形,XHANDY你们几个老表迷都清楚知道事情的来龙去脉,我这个表有无问题你们也知道,为什么在这里你们一句公道说话都不讲?

5、这个贴,误导了很多人。以为movement2009真是专家老师,但是他其实有玩过3色怀表吗!?没有,全部都是天马行空!你有本事的拿出自己的收藏,真伪一看便知道。我的3色不多10只还是有的。

6、movement2009你曾经讲过我下面这个黄、黑、白3色很漂亮,一样是现代制品吗?他的雕工又不一样吗?我一样在小贩处买的。




最后,我和MOVEMENT2009你辩论,完全没有问题,但是你不要说俄罗斯和列宾美术学院怎怎样,你无到过这些地方,不了解俄罗斯的学术成就。

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参与人数 1金币 +1 收起 理由
movement2009 + 1 好! 原來是自嗚表派來的! ;)

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头像被屏蔽
发表于 2010-9-7 13:51 | 显示全部楼层
提示: 作者被禁止或删除 内容自动屏蔽
发表于 2010-9-7 14:45 | 显示全部楼层
隔壁帖子的链接?俺去围观........
发表于 2010-9-7 14:47 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 shenzhen2020 于 2010-9-11 00:15 编辑

发表于 2010-9-7 14:52 | 显示全部楼层
有日子没去那头看看了。。。。
发表于 2010-9-7 15:05 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 movement2009 于 2010-9-7 17:46 编辑

55# 33厘米烂锑煲
小朋友,
懷表世界或其他智識根本大到無一個人可以得知有多大的, 我除了不懂印記, 也有數不盡的不懂, 對我來說, 一個人無知才是十分正常的, 最緊要有開放的思想, 能接受其他人意見, 不快樂一點嗎? "死要面子"是中國人能真正成長的包服, 我早已丟了正如你教會我585/1000(可能我很快意忙記的!!!畢竟年紀大了)我是很多謝你的
你有否留意這邊很多人也丟了這包服?
我在意是喜愛的表, 不會在意人們說什麼的, 但會用作參巧
你愛你的錶嗎? 為什麼太在意別人的評點呢?

你樓上帖的錶早說過, 你又問 你的問題我已全數回覆,我問你的唯一關於刀的你似乎不敢答!

氾冰冰很美, 身材一流, 你覺得我是否一定要跟她做過愛, 才能讚她美呢?
又或者我是否一定要跟樓上肥婆做完愛才能說她太肥呢?
同樣道理三色殼我毫無興趣, 為什麼一定要買回來才能評評它呢?
玩表最終的目的是玩表, 不是做專家, 專家大都是小販, 炒手, 因很多錶過他們手, 他們的目的就是錢!


你說的那個天神小販論壇很久沒上了......很多人走了, 有很多過了這邊, 有的神用馬甲偷看
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